19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me (Jesus Christ) said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
I have read that 85% of the Mormon Converts come from the Christian Camp. Considering that converts are made to doubt their salvation and get induced to change their religious affiliation based on misinformation and withholding vital information is quite tragic. Converts are made by 83000 missionaries (2013) preaching the epiphany below. Some call it sheep stealing.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me (Jesus Christ) said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
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I read this very interesting article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/09/mormon-church-online_n_5024251.html. Do not expect conversions to drop any time soon ! If it really holds up that retention rates of e-converts are better than real growth could even accelerate again. I believe Mormonism is a powerful myth and it is understood by Mormons to be true Christianity.
In many ways I am sad about the state of affairs in religion. Mormons are wonderful people and I do envy them for being able to be so sure about anything. The new breed of e-missionaries will be exposed to a much wider spectrum of information or at least hear about a multitude of problems that have upset believing members as well as antagonists. At the end of the day I don't think the driving force of Mormonism is money or anything but a doubt defying dogged belief that they have found the one true path to salvation and that do the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Something a doubter can be envious of.
Dan Vogel's Prophet Puzzle is an excellent analysis of Joseph Smith and an attempt to get as close as possible to re-constructing the true story of the origin of Mormonism with its absolute claims and peculiar doctrines attributable to one man only. If they are false and based on intentional fraud in part, which is highly probable, then Mormonism has to be rejected as a sugar coated poison pill, no matter how good its sanitized version looks today.
Mormonism has set out to improve Christianity and increase certainty in a doubting secularized society. Based on gaining increasing credibility it took the liberty to re-invent and consequently corrupt Christianity into a pagan fertility cult that has spiritualized Joseph Smith's obsession with sex. In today's society Jeff Warren's spiritual and sexual abuse has resulted in a conviction, because it involved minors. Joseph Smith would have suffered the same fate and as the true source of Jeff Warren's religion he is morally guilty to a much higher degree. Since the LDS church actively glorifies Joseph Smith and keeps his image beyond reproach, they should take a courageous stand and grief with the victims, rather than washing their hands. Nevertheless today's Mormon Culture is worthy to be saved and should grow naturally, but the LDS church should follow the RLDS church and recant its absolute claims and stop proselyting with deceptive tactics. They will do so one day, but only if public opinion and its members sufficiently revolt to accelerate the change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4JlJaD2fks Two court cases have made headlines in March 2014.
(1) Tom Phillips case based on Fraud Allegations against the LDS church was thrown out of court on March 20th 2014 by a UK judge. This case got a lot of attention, with headlines such as Thomas Monson summoned to appear in UK court on fraud charges. Watch on youtube and read David Twedes press release here. (2) The second case at the European court first reported on 4 March 2014 was lost by the LDS church. Read temple tax article here. Links https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0677QESN0Jk http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mormon-church-loses-english-temple-tax-fight-in-european-rights-ruling-9167688.html http://www.mormonthink.com/files/fraud-case-Phillips-Press-Release-2014-3-20.pdf Yesterday 20th march the uk court case was thrown out. I recon if it was pitched right it would have endured. But the Adam and Eve allegations went to far into three freedom domain. The target should have been limited to tax and placing the book of Abraham on the market. The second allegation would have been fixed easily by declaring it fiction or inspired revelation in all publications but the first one would have hurt. However to force the LDS to come cleAn on fiction would have been a win as well. The courts have had a major impact on doctrine twice so far. Pity it didn't happen this time, but it may still have a creeping impact. In any case publicity is working its ways regardless of using the courts or not. It just takes longer. Important viewing on religious writing, in particular on classification of religious script. The tone appears to be hostile to faith (in my opinion). "Banned" to me suggests its all fiction and it would have been fair to admit all competing mystic writing into the bible.
Jews and Christian have however been careful to define what is commonly more reasonable to belief. Maybe to declare it the infallible word of God has been upping the stakes dishonestly and hence the criticism. But its good that the categories of Midrash and Apocrypha have been allocated for spurious works. The LDS scriptures however are not in the same category where centuries later the authorship remained dubious. Here we have a strong case of deliberate historical fraud by the author to borrow credibility for his revelations, regardless of whether or not he had genuine visionary experiences and inspirational insights. Banned From the Bible - Documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuVKZCb9N4o Apocalyptic Cults http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU3_DkpWDak oxy = sharp
moron = stupid an OxyMormon would be a sharp Mormon, maybe that's a good thing to be. Mormons must be desperate for proof. They post stuff like this as proof.
It got them 50 000 views 900 comments and a LD ratio of 100 /180 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0TyUPx5uYM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIqGwnUQyls. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lead_Codices And who says you can't con a con. Remember the Kinderhook plates. I applaud the RLDS. for their honesty. The Church has released an essay "Becoming like God".
https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng Strategic emotional advertising used by LDS missionaries, thanks to LDS owned Bonneville
"Our unique strength is the ability to touch the hearts and minds of our audiences, evoking first feeling, then thought and, finally, action. We call this uniquely powerful brand of creative "HeartSell"® - strategic emotional advertising that stimulates response." The LDS Church is in no mood to give up the fight for increasing the fold of sheep. Only the weapons have changed and have been designed to battle the internet with its reformers, dissenters and cult watchers. Those are a diverse vocal minority with limited resources and no common organisational structure for collaboration, that have broken into the magic first page on youtube. If you want to play then you must be in the millionaires club for youtube views.
So what is this new breed of Mormon missionaries ? They are gospel salesmen and women and are younger, more numerous then ever (83 000) and equipped with an ipad and a tool kit for emotional marketing thanks to Bonneville Communications (BC) trademarked HEARTSELL productions . . . (more) The LDS Church has released a new essay titled
"Becoming like God" - see https://www.facebook.com/mormontruth My comment may be a little distasteful to some and I apologize, but even Hitler (who was proxy baptized as LDS and after public pressure it was disannulled) propagated the future race of "God-men" (Gottesmenschen). The LDS church has 83 000 missionaries today - more than ever and younger than ever and equipped with the latest media tools. Are we facing a Mormon technology propaganda war ? With an even bigger army of Tech missionaries in the background can the new breed of i-pad missionaries stem the tide ? See essay at https://www.lds.org/topics The internet has had a strong impact on bringing down Mormon church growth in South America. Photograph below courtesy of Salamandersociety. Chile appears to have had a decline in practicing members over the last 10 years - see 2012 census. Brazil may still have marginal growth. Missionaries are doing it tough nowadays.
An email exchange between Walter and Grant Palmer in December 2013, January 2014. Posted with permission. One rather sensitive topic has been deleted (Self censorship by Walter). Grant is a Mormon scholar and a fine Christian and has stayed in the Mormon Church as long as he could. When the true complexity of the deeply troubled foundational truth claims laid by Joseph Smith became evident through his and other scholars research and the current leaders remained in denial Grant remained in the LDS church until it became impossible for him stay. Even as a Mormon he has personally reformed to a practice of orthodox Christianity within the LDS church (Prison ministry).
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Grant Palmer <[email protected]> Date: Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 4:26 AM Subject: Re: Summary - An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, To: Walter Strohbeck <[email protected]> Hi Walter, Question #1: If you wish to use my responses on your blog. you can. Question #2: I don't have an authoritative answer for this question. Question #3: Yes, mormonthink in my opinion is the best research site on the internet. The founder of MormonThink recently told me that the site receives between 2.3 and 3 million hits per month. However, not all are different persons. Grant (Comment by Walter. Hits are a rather useless statistic. It includes far too much machine activity (spiders). About 30 000 visitors pm is more realistic and even that includes repeat visitors.) On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:58 AM, Walter Strohbeck <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Grant, (1) Thanks again for writing. Glad you had a holiday or was it a study trip ? It would be great if you became a blogger as Mormonthink does not seem to invite comments. I could paste it into my personal blog if it wasn't a private conversation, but alternatively you are welcome to publish our Q&A's. It would be great if all your latest responses reached a larger audience. (2) I don't know how many "Mormon Scholars that turned Christian" are out there - any idea ? (3) Is Mormonthink the most trafficed free website for honest research ? You mentioned hits where going from 500 000 (in one month ??) into Millions. Was that a short peak last year or cumulative ? When I do a stats analysis I only get about 350 000 to 700 000 per year. Can you clarify ? Best regards Walter On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Grant Palmer <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Walter, I just returned from viewing the ruins of the Mayans in central America. I was particularly interested is finding Reformed Egyptain on the the monuments and stela, but this was not to be, as all can now be read clearly in Mayan. I also hoped to see a "Lamanite" but only found Asian and Mongolian characteristics among all the Mayan people I surveyed. However, I did see a tee shirt on an "Elder ...." which read: "I am a Mormon, I know it, I live it, I love it." Oh well. As to your questions, I know a number of Community of Christ historians and a few of their apostles. Yes, they are for real. Their World Historian told me that my book was the catalyst for moving forward as a religion. They even used my book as a text book at Graceland College, there BYU equivalent. Question # 2: It is too early to tell although it appears they are more willing to tell the truth about our past. The church does what is in its best interest. Holdging church courts is not quieting the storm so perhaps they are for now ignoring those who speak up or write things they don't like. Time will tell. Question # 3: It would help if an apostle or two came clean, but this in my opinion is not likely. They rationalize all the good the church is doing in the world. As I have said elsewhere, I think the air in the balloon will slowly leave the balloon. The church's finest hour has past. I don't think they will ever again be able to beat their proud chest regarding growth or increasing influence in the world. The truth about Mormonism is now everywhere, and the church cannot stop it. Grant On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Walter Strohbeck <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Grant, I have similar sentiments about the need for LDS leaders to come clean - I recon the RLDS have shown the way. (1) Do you feel the RLDS/CoC have come clean and would they meet your standards for what the LDS should do ? (2) The official line on truthful history seems to have shifted a little to allow John Dehlin to do what he does. Do you recon that in 2014 LDS scholars / members are a bit more free to be contrarian then in 2010, the year of your induced resignation ? (3) I am trying to predict what another 20 years of internet and the passing away of the current generation of leaders (Monson / Packer) might do ? Is there a possible Gorbachev in the ranks of the 12 apostles ? Do you feel like making predictions ? Best regards Walter On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Grant Palmer <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Walter, No, I could not go back to LDS Church unless they came clean on Joseph Smith and then became a much more Christ centered church. I feel that as it is now, that I have graduated from the LDS Church. Grant On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 6:21 AM, Walter Strohbeck <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Grant, Thanks again. Do you get the same feeling that you can't go back anymore unless the church fundamentally changes ? The irony is that Joseph was confused about evangelical Christianity and set out to fix the controversies by starting his own faith movement from scratch. I am not convinced that he designed it all alone, but he made it to the top. The result is a doctrinally confusing and unstable religious system (propped up by authority, denials, whitewashing and indoctrination as you said) that needs constant fixes while breaks up into 5 major streams. LDS, RLDS, FLDS, CoC and XMo's which are either Christian, of other faith or atheist/agnostic. Makes protestant Christianity a much more honest and living alternative for me. Keep in mind that Chinese converts alone completely dwarf LDS growth in numbers as well as intensity of faith. LDS do not talk about that. Students at the BYU quipped that the motto "The world is our campus" could just as well be "The campus is our world" I have gone through my own confusion and done a 360 degrees faith journey. All the best Walter On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 4:24 AM, Grant Palmer <[email protected]> wrote: Walter, I have been problems with my computer. My reply to your questions are in our tread but perhaps not where you would expect them to be. Grant On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Grant Palmer <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Walter, Regarding your question #4. I still feel like helping people who are troubled by Mormonism. I remember how painful my own journay was with Mormonism. Mormons pay an inordinate amunt of money and time to the organization. I think they should know "the rest of the story," because the church is not providing it. The LDS Church does not educate its members, they instruct or indocrinate them. It is not som much a religion, but more tribal in nature, a cradle to grave system. Regarding #3. It is related to your PS above. Mormons are fearful of breaking their oaths, of disappointing the Bishop, of not being worthy, of disappointing LDS neighbors, friends and relatives. Thus, many will not look beneath the veneer. Regarding #1. My book should provide you with enough information for you decide your own answer. Regarding #2. I don't know, but I think the LDS Church will continure to bleed members, especially those that view truth as more impontant than loyality to a tradition. Such conclude that if the foundational claims are not true; then it it just another expensive social club. There is a brain drain occuring, especially among thinkers and teachers. Young adults are often board with church offerings and find the church irrelevent to their lives. Overall the church to me seems to have lost its vitality and is increasingly becoming marginalized in society. Having said this, I think the church will do almost anything to survive. It is my hope that they will enlarge their umbrella and accept Chrsit centered Mormons into their fold who can't give "Praise to the Man [Smith]." Right now the church seems to be largely doubling down on members rather than making the giant steps required to become a Christ centered church. My hope is that they will dreamatically shift to Christ. I have always had such a hope. Time will tell if it happsns. Grant On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Walter Strohbeck <[email protected]> wrote: Merry Christmas Grant, I like your stance and your papers. Praise God Jesus stood for truth and integrity and told us not swear an oath. Hence our Jesus would never manipulate us with mind games and then bind us with Masonic oaths. Maybe the key issue is not so much "Are Mormons Christian". I recon they may be if their hearts are right, like my Mums and my sisters and they follow Jesus in ignorance and good faith. The key issue for me is: "Is the Mormon Jesus the true Jesus" ? The answer depends on whether or not he has spoken new revelation in this era. The Mormon scripture goes well beyond a restoration of the primitive church of Christ. It is a far reaching extension that leans towards pagan religions. Temple Mormonism is so much out of character with Judaism and Christianity that the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against such a proposition, in my opinion its 99:1 or worse. The Jesus that Joseph has revealed treats truth and integrity very lightly. Judging by Josephs revelations Jesus would be so capricious that he would brush aside character and conscience and depicts a God that would arbitrarily change his mind about the truth in no time and even over just the 14 years of Josephs ministry. Oaths are instruments of power and control that the adversary uses. The temple oath is very manipulative. We are told we can withdraw before we learn what the oath is, implying that it is too later thereafter. Interestingly Hinkley has stated that Mormons do believe in a different Jesus than the traditional one of the Christians. I would have to agree with that. Of course with Hinkley the blame goes to the creeds for creating a false Jesus and I disagree to a large extend. Mormons have gone far more beyond the mark than early Christians (up to 325 AD) and we both know that our trust has to remain with the biblical Jesus. Here is a funny and also very deep quote: "In the beginning God has created man in his image and ever since mankind has attempted to return the favor." So for me the key question is (1) who has commissioned Joseph and what drove him ? Does your book go into his mind as well (Any psychoanalysis?). I have struggled with the answer. Here is my attempt. Besides God or the Devil the third alternative is Man and it is probably the most likely one. Joseph was very mixed up, but also shifty at the same time and he may have conspired. With Masonry and Universalism running through his family I believe he schemed the BoM and deluded himself with his visions (mixing the occult and the divine). His attitude may have been: The end justifies the means. His motivation was to save himself and the world, gain power, wealth, influence and women and take credit for his genius in helping God out. Further questions are . . . (2) Will the church ever give up its exclusive claim to a divine mandate even if it is in a hundred years ? Is Uchtdorfs speech (October 2013) gently edging towards a Mormon Spring ? What do you read between the lines ? (3) Do the oaths prevent the majority of the members from rebelling ultimately ? (4) Do you feel a sense of mission to continue as a watchman and to bring Mormons closer to Christ ? What drives you and will you keep writing or rather retire ? God bless you Walter On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 5:29 AM, Grant Palmer <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Walter, I do feel liberated (John 8:32) having resigned from the LDS Church. It has been good to get away from the legalistic and controlling nature of Mormonism. I also no longer have to look over my shoulder every time I write an anticle or speak about Mormonism. I like your insight regarding that here I am trying to be a good Christian and they seek to throw me out of the church because I don't believe in Joseph Smith. They won't let a Christian partake of the Mormon sacrament because I don't believe in Smith! Wow. Perhaps Mormonism is not Christian. Merry Christmas, Grant On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Walter Strohbeck <[email protected]> wrote: Dear Grant, Thank you very much for both attachments. I did already have a close look at your webpage before I wrote and I could not find your attachments there. It is ironic that you have been flushed out from your faith community for being honest to God and following Jesus to the best you would know, which is a covenant requirement and precondition for admission to the temple and exaltation. It is a worry that conscience does get suppressed and manipulated and I recon that this is systemic and will never be fixed without genuine repentance. There should be sincere apologies for the past by current leaders to facilitate the freedom and healing that comes from forgiveness. I wonder what your life in Utah is like after your resignation in 2010 ? Has it become harder or do you feel more liberated ? Did you find a good fellowship. There must be a lot of like minded people there. Did you loose more or gain more in terms of freedom of speech and treasured relationships ? We don't pay as high a price as you would in Utah, but I know I have broken my mothers heart. After switching to fellowshipping in Christian Churches 18 years ago I still managed to keep all my closest Mormon relationships and for the rest I never cared. God bless you Walter On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 4:06 AM, Grant Palmer <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Walter, Thanks for dropping me a note. Enclosed are two items. Everything that I have done during the last 12 years can be found at mormonthink.com , grant palmer homepage. Best wishes to you and your family, Grant On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 5:45 PM, Walter Strohbeck <[email protected]> wrote: Re Summary - An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, Dear Grant, I was listening to you on youtube and feel inspired by your courage. May I ask for a copy of the summary you mentioned ? We live in Australia and have left the LDS fellowship. I am about to follow your example and resign. I am glad you kept your faith in Jesus. He is very much alive. We have far better faith heros then Joseph. Heidi Baker (dubbed today's evangelical Mother Teresa) has helped me a lot to restore my confidence in God's world wide engagement. There is and invisible kingdom or a "only true and living church" of true believers. Heidi will be featured world wide in a movie screening in January 2014. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_a-CqXjbKo God bless you. I have elaborated on my thoughts below and came to realize that the fraudulent BoA actually propagates further disclosure of its revelations in secret temple ordinances and hence can be linked to mandatory tithes. This is a unique LDS feature without precedent ! It will be important to explain that to the legal professionals and general public. As we know the temple initiate is than bound by an oath to make lifelong monetary sacrifices to the LDS church. Fraud allegations against Thomas Monson #1 - Antique papyri vs Modern translation of the Book of Abraham (BoA) Without prejudice. Many commentators believe that the allegations will not proceed in court, but maybe the first allegation relating the Book of Abraham indeed has a good chance to proceed in court. The Book of Abraham is offered for sale as a translation of an antique document. Here are a few points to look at (A) Scripture is untouchable (B) Test criteria for Fraud (C) How would the LDS church respond if they lost a court case ? (A) Scripture is untouchable, but is the BoA scripture ? Any body of scripture, including the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham, "is constitutionally protected in the United States," Gordon said. "Historical claims in scripture are not subject to judicial investigation." Intresting. So I can create a novel and sell it as a historical non-fiction book as long as I organize a religion and declare it scripture ? And then it is beyond science and the courts ? If a translation is scripture than the original is scripture as well, but if the original source document is from a pagan religion how then can it legally still be claimed Christian scripture and sold as such ? This sounds like document fraud to me. (B) Tests (BoA) Quotes from Salt Lake Tribune: The charges are based on Britain’s Fraud Act of 2006, meant to prosecute those who misrepresent themselves or their organization to get gain. Phillips’ case is based on seven supposed Mormon claims. These are matters that can be disproved in court, he said. "This has nothing to do with religion, theology or doctrine." To win the case, though, prosecutors would have to prove that not only are these ideas false, but that Monson knows they are untrue and uses them to "get gain," namely, members’ tithing money. Laws against religious fraud cannot be applied to "good-faith practice of religious convictions".
(C) LDS Response if case is lost or to pre-empt loosing the case. How can the LDS church fix the BoA charges if they stick ? (1) Declare the BoA to be mystical and recant all claims to a translation and remove all references from the book (2) Ditch the BoA from the canon (3) Remove covenants from temple ordinances that bind members to pay tithes or disclose the ordinances in advance Its LDS Lies that got me into the faith and Lies that got me out of it !
Any body of scripture, including the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham, "is constitutionally protected in the United States," Gordon said. "Historical claims in scripture are not subject to judicial investigation."
So which scripture is protected ? The antique Egyptian Source document or its modern fraudulent derivative aka translation. As to an alleged publicity stunt, it is dubious that it actually will pay off in the court of public opinion. 2500 comments on sltrib isn't that much. I don't believe in law suits and certainly not in this case. Christians should not judge President Monson, but rather leave it to God and pray for Pres Monson that he will have wisdom.
However I do hope he does discuss the topic of "dropping the BoA from the canon" with his top 14 leaders and that he prays fervently for wisdom from God in this matter. But hopes that he would tell us how he thinks and feels deep down have not materialized and there is a systemic reason for that. Secrecy and cover ups are the "modus operandi" and the most annoying mark of the LDS church. I think that's why so many long serving members like us are shell shocked when they find out that their leaders are not the completely honest and angelic beings as they where lead to believe. We had to make annual declarations that we are completely honesty to go to the temple where we would make character covenants. The same applies to the top leaders, but they must have found a way to justify hypocrisy and duplicity that some seem to struggle with more. We must keep in minds that LDS prophets are sons of systemic secrecy and loyalty and rooted in the masonic tradition. Their actions image God as a liar. Do they trust God enough to deem him able to fix the mess that they have inherited ? It's almost as if they think God needs all the help he can get or that they are on their own and God has forsaken the Morg. I recon that they can keep most of the seasoned loyal sheep with honesty and true repentance and that they should boldly set out to build a more honest and sustainable spiritual culture. A Mormon Joke (official plagiarised version)
After getting all of President Monson’s luggage loaded into the limo, the driver notices that President Monson is still standing on the curb. ‘Excuse me, says the driver, ‘Would you please take your seat so we can leave?’ ‘Well, to tell you the truth,’ said President Monson, ‘they never let me drive and I’d really like to drive today.’ ‘I’m sorry, but I cannot let you do that. I’d lose my job! What if something should happen’ protests the driver, wishing he’d never gone to work that morning. ‘Who’s going to tell’ says President Monson with a big smile. Reluctantly, the driver gets in the back as President Monson climbs in behind the wheel. The driver quickly regrets his decision when, after entering the highway he floors it, accelerating the limo to 95 miles ph. ‘Please slow down pleads the worried driver, but President Monson keeps the pedal to the metal until they hear sirens. ‘Oh, dear God, I’m going to lose my license — and my job!’ moans the driver. President Monson pulls over and rolls down the window with a big smile as the cop approaches. The cop takes one good look at him, goes back to his motorcycle, and gets on the radio. ‘I need to talk to the Chief,’ he says to the dispatcher. The Chief gets on the radio and the cop tells him that he’s stopped a limo going 95 miles ph. ‘So bust him,’ says the Chief. ‘I don’t think we want to do that, he’s really important,’ said the cop. The Chief exclaimed, ‘All the more reason!’ ‘No, I mean really important,’ said the cop with a bit of persistence. The Chief then asked, ‘Who do you have there, the mayor?’ Cop: ‘Bigger.’ Chief: ‘A senator?’ Cop: ‘Bigger.’ Chief: ‘The President?’ Cop: ‘Bigger.’ Chief: ‘The Pope?’ Cop: ‘Bigger.’ ‘Well,’ said the Chief, ‘who is it?’ Cop: ‘I think it’s God!’ The Chief is even more puzzled and curious, ‘What makes you think it’s God?’ Cop: ‘His chauffeur is President Monson !’ Every now or so often some writers have anticipated the end of Mormonism. But this is unlikely to happen. Even the end of Joseph was not the end, it just splintered Mormonism and the LDS further developed polygamy against the denials of LDS apostate Emma Smith. Read more about these events in the Nauvoo Expositor. What we actually see is that they are getting closer to reaching a peak possibly by 2016. See also the article on lying and a discussion about the tipping point for the LDS church and the website of lawyer Kay Burningham.
The Mormon Church is engaged in a cyber information battle which can be seen as an admission that their position is very hard to defend and needs support by any means possible. So they hired a search engine specialist and rest assured that they have millions to spend for public relations. In Germany we had a ministry of propaganda during the third Reich which was headed by Mr. Goebbels, the propaganda minister. They say that in a war truth is always the first casualty. I know this is not a nice to mention, but being German I can't escape the thought that propaganda is to stem the tide and to prepare a soft landing. The church has two minority wings, the fundies and the reformers. Both are a thread to the middle way and going fast will send shock waves through the ranks With the arrival of the internet a new front has opened up in the propaganda war where the Mormon church commits its vast influence and resources to obstruct the discovery of real truth for the sake of faithful truth as thought within its faith system. A German site gives much insight on how the information war pans out. It even includes search engine spamming and even legal action to take over a critics domain name.
Reprint from Bakirish on Mormon Stories December 19, 2013 at 9:01 pm
I just finished listening to this podcast. I feel sick. I am a Utah County active Mormon trying to hold onto a thread of a testimony to keep me active in the Church. I wait for that inspiring “a-ha” moment when I will get a “Holy Ghost” feeling or the Church makes a wonderful revelation that will help solidify my testimony. I fear I wait in vain. What I have “known” but “put on the shelf” for years, and what this “announcement” solidifies even further: 1) The leaders of the Church are no better than me. I have as much, or more, access to the divine as they have. They are simply successful business men who were, or have become, “career Church” and now run a multi-billion dollar business. They do what is necessary to protect that business… at all costs. 2) The Church is no better than any other “run of the mill” church. Preach Jesus, repentance, holy ghost, pass around a hat (or a 3.5 x 6 grey envelope), setup a shingle and there you go. Nothing else needed. 3) The unquestioned adherence to every word the “brethren” say by the “lock step robots” is downright terrifying. If these guys don’t even know what Mormon Doctrine is, if they cannot discern right from wrong, if they cannot lead us to a higher ground, what good are they? And to think they “command” an army of drones that will jump off the nearest cliff if they tell them to. I hate to say it but it is Nazi’ish. Mr Stevenson, I have attended my LDS Orem ward for 25 years now. At least 95% of them are exactly “lock step robots”. In fact I can’t think of a better term to describe them. I hope that outside of Utah there is more individual thinking. Remember the KSL Doug Wright Show quote, “When two people agree all of the time, only one of them is doing the thinking.” 4) You cannot trust the judgement of anyone employed directly or indirectly by the Church. They are in crosshairs of the firing squad. Their daily bread depends on them always “looking on the bright side.” If the game is “find the one true church,” you must consider all sides of all issues, otherwise you might just happily sit in your “incorrect church” all your life and never find the wonderful nirvana that is the LDS Church. Or, vice versa? 5) You cannot trust the word of deep rooted anti-Mormons. To be fair, they have an agenda too. However, I hear more truth, as the Holy Ghost burns by bosom, coming from them than from Church leaders. 6) I cannot allow Church leadership to have control over my life. If they are just men, no better than me, then they do not deserve the promise I made in the Temple to never talk “bad” about them. When I made that promise I was an 18 year old boy who simply wanted to fit into my loving Mormon family and group of friends. I went to the Temple because that is what Mormon boys do at that age. If I would have known then what I know now, I would not have done it. When we have Stake or Regional visitors at our ward, I watch the behavior of the members. Wow! No need to explain because if you have seen it you already understand, and if you have not seen it you probably work at BYU. My plea. Mr Monson et. al. I would wager that you are scared to death, you feel a huge weight, you do not get the “revelation” that you thought you would, you have to fight for every “burning in your bosom.” You probably thought you would walk into the Holy of Holies and find something that would confirm you really are God’s mouthpiece. When you found nothing, you had to dig deep. You had to convince yourself that such is the “norm.” But you feel inadequate. You wonder. I am fine with that. If you would just tell me, I would respect you so much more. If you do this, I would like to be like you. I want to explore, ask questions, understand, search for my own “burnings.” I want to be accepted in my congregation for the person I am, with all my flaws. I want a loving ward. I want to be in this fight “with” you. Your current behavior creates an illusion of absolute knowledge. You demand silent adherence. You know the mysteries of the universe. You cannot lead us astray. You are the man. That mirage is unsustainable. It will eventually crumble. It is starting to crumble. Indirectly your behavior produces a society of fear. I cannot grow at Church. You won’t let me talk about anything interesting. I can’t ask the questions that I want to ask because the Inquisition is always listening. The “Stake Hit Squads” are at your beck and call. Why do you do that? I hear it is because you love me. I am confused. I wish I could write this post using my real name, but the environment of fear that you and your predecessors have created does not allow me to do so. I have a family, kids, a positive neighborhood reputation, future temple weddings to protect. I am forced to prostitute my morals to stay under your radar. You are a slightly entertaining story teller putting on a show that has no substantive output. You are behind the curve. You are out of touch. You are entertainment. You are repetitive. I am told that is because I have not adopted what you have already told me. That is false. Please, just tell me the truth. Just be a human. Just tell your marketing department to let you be human. The Potemkin village they construct around you is transparent. I would guess there are a lot of people waiting for you. Please don’t let me down. Bakirish, This is a courageous post and much of it resonates with me. Joseph Smith is dead and he is who he is for better or worse. His restoration of the painting of Jesus needs another restoration and the Leaders know it. Give it another 20 years of internet and much more "Leader - Member symbiosis" and we may see a Gorbachev in the LDS church who promotes Glasnost and Perestroika. Would the example of the RLDS church be satisfactory to you ? Mormoni Posted today @ below. Lets see if it passes moderation.
http://mormonstories.org/race-and-the-priesthood-web-page-radiowest/comment-page-1/#comment-504497 What puzzles me most is that the current LDS authorities continue to play the gamble of the churches founder. Hence all new confessions by the authorities are subtle and minimalist and only mirror some of the inescapable conclusions of its own scholars. In this play they are supported by the vast majority of the members who cherish the security of their beliefs guaranteed by absolute ecclesiastical authority over a more risky uncertainty where God / Jesus is very much alive, but far less predictable. It seems that the LDS church has been busy for the last 170 years to propagate revelations that slowly and subtly dismantle the esoteric revelations of its foundational first 14 years. I recon that the LDS church would have a solid future based on general Christianity, its unique culture of sound family principles and character values, its social fabric, youth ministry and leadership principles combined with high birth rates. Why are they so afraid to face the truth of a checkered charismatic founder who's claim to divinity has become unsustainable ? Is it the risk another break off of 10% of its fundies ? Is a slow erosion from within preferable ? Derren Brown (born 27 February 1971)is a British illusionist, mentalist, trickster, hypnotist, painter, writer, and sceptic. Joseph Smith (born December 23, 1805) is an American illusionist, mentalist, trickster, hypnotist, writer, philosopher, freethinker and a fervent Christian Millennialist believer. His revelatory evolutions have not passed the tests of modern times. Joseph Smith the Prophet of the Restoration.
Great story telling, but real history is far more complex and controversial. Maybe that accounts for the 1/6 of dislikes ! A people, a scripture, a prophet & charisma. Seemingly it ticks all the boxes. Fruits are yet a mixed bag. Consider FLDS and cover ups for example. Watch official video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xVw6PsSinI |
>xmo (blog)The Jesus of the Gospels (John)
By Walter from Melbourne
I stopped attending the LDS church in 1995 and formally left in 2014 as a matter of integrity cause I would no longer live the extensions of the Mormon faith. I love and respect Mormons and wish them well on their path to keep seeking the truth that matters most and trust that the LDS church will continue to further reform from within. We have already seen signs of the rolling back of some masonic tenets of the faith. Is the Mormon foundational story confined to the realms of the imaginary with eternal truth embedded in fiction ? Then you are on a path of exploring deeper spiritual truth ! Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life John 14:6 Videos & WebsitesSupport Site IRR Archives
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