Pilates classic Question "What is Truth" is highly relevant for all Mormons, that have been exposed to confronting their illusions and suffered damage to their faith.

Already in the early days of the Mormon Church What could have killed the church was polygamy. Believers that face the agony of cognitive dissonance often double down on rationalizing their faith to rescue their illusionary faith and dodge the agony of doubt and depression futher down the path. The pain of loosing your soul looms large.

The rescue effort contains thought models that things don't all have to be literally true to be true and eternal truth can be embedded in fiction and is often best illustrated in a fable or parable. And by rebooting his faith and taking things figuratively DP Trebas, author of the Lucy code has coined the  new label "figurative Mormon".

Watching the movie "Collateral Beauty" am reminded how thin the line is between Rescued Beauty and suffering collteral damage to our faith. So the question is how much of a share of concrete truth is necessary for a faith to survive the assault of abstract truth (inspired fiction). This is a legitimate question for every Christian, Mormon or not, but the scope for collteral damage is much larger for the Mormon. 

Christianity has flaws, but can ultimately not be disproven whole sale. In contrast Mormonisms spirituality has no legitimate basis in its foundational peseudo historical records (BofM and BofA). It's a Zero. Mormonism hence can only claim the later record D&C and PofGP as authentic physical records. But Mormon spirituality does not need truth to thrive, belief is all that matters in matters of faith and fervent faith in powerful illusions / delusions is potent enough to produce spiritual and supernatural experiences, yes even miracles.

So maybe this is the secret of collateral truth and for the true believer there is always enough, even if in matters of historicity the Bible clearly has the edge over the Book of Mormon. It would be interesting to compare the Thorah with the New Testament to determine the winner for greater historic authenticity. No record is perfect.

​For some light hearted viewing watch Mrs Brown & the Mormons and Rowan A's the Devil Toby 

How Mormons succeed in making converts
​
Mormon Missionaries instil confirmation bias in the proselyte and being under considerable pressure themselves and trained to succeed in spiritul battle they will also use sales tactics, such as setting a baptism date very early in the process of giving 7 lessons. Missionaries generally are sincere believers in Jesus Christ and they are to a significant degree self financed, giving up time and money and they will fast for your conversion and that does not fail to make a strong impact as I know from personal experience. In addition the Bible stands partially discredited by the Book of Mormon and Mormons teach that it is a compromised work, that has been tampered with. So the Book of Mormon comes with a double purpose in being written by the ancient indigenous people for their offspring as well as for all of us and our time. And as a climax its climax the book even contains a number of red letter chapters, that are claimed to be 100% pure. Some happen to be identical with the Sermon on the Mount in Matt 5-7. Jesus would at the time of his atonement have caused immense destruction in the Americas and then appear to a multitude of 2500 survivors who where permitted to be special witnesses and feel his wounds if the Book of Mormon can be trusted. 

BofM 3Ne11:14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
BofM 3Ne11:15 And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and ​did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.
BofM 3Ne7:25 And the multitude did see and hear and bear record; and they know that their record is true for they all of them did see and hear, every man for himself; and they were in number about two thousand and five hundred souls; and they did consist of men, women, and children.
​

The ongoing discussion about the Mormon Jesus is offensive to Mormons, cause they see only one Jesus who happens to be one and the same, but chose to embrace Masonry when in Joseph Smith times he decided to reveal that masonry has been corrupted and Smith will be called to restore the Truth. So maybe we should not talk about another Jesus, since there is only one, but how  about another Gospel and possibly dliberately designed as an apocryphical one ? Going by official language the Book of Mormon is touted another Testament of Jesus Christ. If we call it another Gospel of Jesus Christ which it is due to its new red letter content and setting among red Indians (now really Jews) we are reminded of Pauls words about let him who preaches another Gospel than the one he has preached be accursed. I'm sure that would be offensive to Mormons. Anyways being a truth seeker should not make me Anti-Mormon, but since the threat is very real I would be labelled such by many TBM's simply because I question / challenge the official script and its authorised interpretation. I should say that this label would only refer to the judgement of LDS Mormons or FLDS Mormons. RLDS Mormons do accept a position of disbelief in the authenticity of the Book of Mormon without officially rejecting it whole scale. Howes work sheds further light on the predicaments of BofM claims. Its tone is rather strong and may not have been designed to make converts.

The Origin of Mormonism has been carefully hidden, but is now in plain sight. Howe (first published critic of Mormonism) who writes in a rather antagonistic tone has not been fully debunked, but rather dismissed. His insights nevertheless add some value to the understanding and evaluation of Mormonism. 
​
https://www.mormonismi.net/pdf/Mormonism_Unvailed_Howe.pdf

Newer research is found here (doesn't list Howe)  ...

http://www.mormonorigins.com/BookOfMormonSourceBooks.html?fbclid=IwAR0Neb53KlFFO6kFNfrtMAxguTzdkDqrx6LdCyN4ieE-nikEgfA11d5vfPo#HeavenAndHell

  

The Book of Mormon as a musical is hugely successful, but surprisingly in spite of it being blasphemous in word and tone (Southpark) it still makes new Mormon converts. Listen to Hello https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKkLV1zE8M0 and
I believe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJgmp2Tc2s  

Well I put it down to the human desire for certainty and integration and the Book of Mormons design that instills a Confirmation Bias in its readers. Then by the time the earnest seeker prays for the Holy Ghost's Guidance wrt the truth of the Book of Mormon he actually uses a non biblical text that appears so close to the bible that it is deemed in harmony and complementary rather than ad on inspirational fiction that deviates in significant aspects from the New Testament.

My mother would have known the Bible well and was in the midst of a full conversion to evangelical revivalism when the LDS Missionaries came to our door. She died as a TBM at age 98 and we had an ecumenical funeral, mostly Mormon including Temple Robes (the coffin was concealed), but I claime her for our Christian faith and grounds of her strong evangelical orientation as expressed in her favorite hyms. Nevertheless my mother was able to fully integrate Mormonism and evangelcal Revivalism (Hofacker) by projecting everything into a closer relationship with Jesus. She is one of the most evangelical (relationship with Jesus oriented) Mormons I have known.

How unique are Mormon Innovations ?

​I have always looked at Mormonism to be unique and had trouble believing its claim to be a restoration of origianal Christianity. However some 30+ years after leaving the LDS church I came accross more and more unique deemed features that on closer investigation are not really that novel at all.

(1) Theogony. For example Mormons believe in a succession of Gods, that makes then unique among the Abrahamic religions. Mormonism deviates so much from the core beliefs of all Abrahamic faiths that one could argue that it isn't a sect anymore, but a religion outright. But Theogony was well established among the Greek and hence is not original. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theogony

(2) Polygamy. It is not unique in the Abrahamic tradition, but Mormon Polygamy is or has been a requirement for Salvation (called Exaltation), which is only available to temple worthy members (LDS). LDS still believe in Polygamy, but won't practice it on earth.

(3) Masonic Temple Endowments. They are the foundation of Mormonisms destinct salvific beliefs. Masonry was seen as a evil in the Book of Mormon (secret societies), but there where times when masonic and evangelical beliefs where seen compatible and part of evangelical missionary training at Dartmouth College (US). Check out ....
The Lucy Code  &facebook  https://www.facebook.com/pg/mormontruth/posts/ 
The original King James Bible masonically illustrated: https://www.cuttingedge.org/news/k1002.cfm

(4) Eternal Marriage. Not unique, ask Swedenborg. https://swedenborg.com/spiritual-marriage/

Reprint from https://www.near-death.com/science/research/hell.html

13. Biblical Support for Universal Salvation
 
  See the Hebrew scriptures and New Testament scriptures above about people not being punished by God forever in hell.

 
  SUMMARY: Nobody can thwart God's will, who wills all men to be saved, not wanting anyone to perish, to have mercy on everyone, to save the whole world by Jesus atoning for the sins of the whole world.

SCRIPTURE EVIDENCE:
a."Then Job replied to the Lord: 'I know that you can do anything and no plan of yours can be thwarted.'" (Job 42:1-2)
b."God our Savior, who will have all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4)
c. "[God] is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
d."For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." (Romans 11:32)
e."For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:17)
f."And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." (1 John 4:14)
g."[Christ] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2:2)
  SUMMARY: All who die will be made alive in Christ, so that God will be all in all, because he gave his life as a ransom for all men, as the Savior of all men, he died for all, to draw all men to himself, so that all people will see God's salvation which has appeared to all men. Just as Adam's sin brought condemnation to all, so Christ act brought justification for all, to bring everything under his control and to bring all things in heaven and earth together under him.

SCRIPTURE EVIDENCE:
a."For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:22)
b."The Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:28)
c."For there is one God and one Mediator between God and man, which is the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men, to be that testimony in due time." (1 Timothy 2:5-6)
d."For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." (1 Timothy 4:10-11)
e."And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. (2 Corinthians 5:15)
f."But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." (John 12:32)
g."Every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill made low. The crooked roads shall become straight, the rough ways smooth. And all people will see God’s salvation.’” (Luke 3:5-6)
h."For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." (Titus 2:11)
i."Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people." (Romans 5:18)
j."But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." (Philippians 3:20-21)
k."And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment -- to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ." (Ephesians 1:9-10)
  SUMMARY: God reconciles his enemies to himself because he loves even his enemies and reconciles all things to himself. When God reconciles all his enemies, even death itself, it will be the "universal restoration" first prophesized by Elijah, then by his reincarnation John the Baptist, then by his future reincarnation as one of the "two witnesses" in the Book of Revelation. Then the end will come and the Kingdom of the Lord will be established on earth.

SCRIPTURE EVIDENCE:
a."If, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!" (Romans 5:10)
b."But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked." (Luke 6:35)
c."For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross." (Colossians 1:19-20)
d."Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
e.[Peter addressed the Israelites;] "But God had foretold through all his prophets that his Christ must suffer and this was how his words came true. Now you must repent and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out, that time after time your souls may know the refreshment that comes from the presence of God. Then he will send you Jesus, your long-heralded Christ, although for the time he must remain in Heaven until that universal restoration of which God spoke in ancient times through all his holy prophets." (Acts 3:18-23)
f.SUMMARY:  The "time of universal restoration" is the time heralded by Elijah when the promised Jewish Messiah comes to rule the Kingdom of God on earth to restore all things and creatures to God. But because John the Baptist (as the reincarnation of Elijah) and Jesus were killed, the time of universal restoration was postponed. After Jesus was killed, the Church age began when Gentiles were being brought to God. According to the Book of Revelation, another time will come when both Elijah and Moses will reincarnate again heralding the return of Jesus. Afterward, the universal restoration will occur and the Kingdom of God will be established on earth.
 --"Jesus chose Peter, James and his brother John, to accompany him high up on the hillside where [Jesus transformed into a being of light]... Then Moses and Elijah were seen talking to Jesus... On their way down the hillside Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about what they had seen until after the Son of Man had risen from the dead. Then the disciples demanded, 'Why is it, then, that the scribes always say Elijah must come first?' 'Yes, Elijah does come first,' replied Jesus, 'and begins the world’s reformation. But I tell you that Elijah has come already and men did not recognize him. They did what they liked with him, and they will do the same to the Son of Man. Then they realized that he had been referring to John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:1-13)
--Read about all the scriptural evidence proving John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah the prophet. Here more some examples:
 (1)"Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." (Malachi 4:5)
(2)"For all the Prophets and the Law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he (John the Baptist) is the Elijah who was to come." (Matthew 11:13-14)
SUMMARY:  In the Book of Revelation, the prophets Elijah and Moses appear again before Jesus appears. This time the result is the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth.
 --"'And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.' They are 'the two olive trees' and the two lampstands, and 'they stand before the Lord of the earth.' If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. They have power [of Elijah] to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power [of Moses] to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want ... The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth ... Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, 'Come up here.' And they went up to heaven in a cloud ... The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: 'The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.'" (Revelation 11:3-15)

Without doubt all faith communities are exposed to the dynamics of evolution and conservatism and they do have their camps or wings at both ends of the faith spectrum. I personally do favour revisionism but I am aware of the risk of going too quick and too far. As to the Mormon church (LDS) I do see an immense pressure to change, but I’m also aware that this will be very scary for many. So what is happening currently is rather subtle and measured, but trending towards main stream rather than extremism.

LDS Christianity has a very different concept of heaven and hell than fundamental evangelical Christianity. As a matter of fact the LDS concept is more appealing to our age and our leaning towards new age concepts of the afterlife. Here is a testimony of a multi layered Hell by Philip Mantofa. https://christianitymalaysia.com/wp/trip-hell-crusade-philip-mantofa/

Nowadays Mormons are discouraged from self identification as Mormons. So maybe LDS-Christian would be quite an acceptable term. On the other side this term would not be acceptable to a vast amount of Christians who argue that doctrinal contamination disqualifies Mormons from being accepted as fellow Christians. I came across a rather interesting philosophical website that reasons the case for Mormonism as the uniquely true version of Christianity based on logic rather than historical evidence. Here it is http://ldschristian.org/

EXTRACT

​Our Creator is “Good”

1. Our existence, and this world we exist on, is profoundly beautiful and amazing.
2. Our universe has been finely tuned (perfect physical universal laws) so as to create a “Goldilocks planet” where life can thrive. There are approximately 40 criteria for life. Some important ones are:
   1. Suitable star: a yellow G-class sun that is the right temperature and give off the right light waves.
   2. Just-right distance from the sun: further would be too cold, closer too hot.
   3. Just-right tilt (rotational axis): allows seasons and moderation of temperatures. No tilt would cause the equator to superheat and to poles to freeze. Full tilt would heat only one pole.
   4. Just-right rotation speed: faster would cause too-high winds, slower would heat one side too much.
   5. Just-right size: bigger would create heaver atmosphere with toxic elements, smaller not enough oxygen and CO2.
   6. Iron core: creates a magnetic field for protection from sun’s radiation.
   7. Tectonic plates: creates mountains for life-giving rain.
   8. Liquid water: a solvent that transports many essential nutrients needed for life.
3. Only a morally “good” Creator would create something so beautiful and finely tuned.
4. A morally “evil” creator would create a sadistic cosmos with chaotic, undefined natural laws. Or, one so rigid it would lack adaptation.
5. The “Christian God” has the only creation story that matches scientific evidence.
6. God, as defined by Christianity, is omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), and omnibenevolent (all-kind).
7. Yet evil exists (a.k.a. The Problem of Evil)
   1. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
   2. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence, and knows every way in which those evils could be prevented.
   3. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
   4. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
8. Using omnipotent power to prevent evil is more evil when it causes a greater evil, or sacrifices the greater good.
9. God cannot prevent certain evils without causing more evil. God cannot lie. God cannot create a paradox. Omnipotent does not mean the ability do anything/everything imagined.
10. Taking away human moral agency (the ability to choose) is a greater evil than the evils humans with agency could cause. (The book “1984”, mind control, puppeteer.)
11. Taking away human moral agency prevents learning, consequences, and judgement. A man cannot be judged or rewarded properly based on what he could have or would have done as much as what he did do.
12. Arbitrarily interfering directly with human caused (anthropogenic) evil creates a slippery slope, in that he would have to interfere with the next one, and the next, slowly taking away moral agency. (Although He may intervene by warning and protecting someone when asked through prayer – which then is not arbitrary.)
13. Arbitrarily altering natural or physical laws to prevent suffering is wrong since humans would not be able to trust those laws. (i.e., altering the laws surrounding tectonic plates that create beautiful mountains and life-giving rain to prevent earthquakes, or altering laws of cell mutation, adaptation, and variety to prevent disease. See #4.)
14. Evil and suffering (both human and nature caused), therefore, must exist for the greater good of mankind to learn compassion, justice, mercy, love, empathy, sorrow, and joy.
15. One cannot know true joy without sorrow – which joy, ironically, comes from overcoming and achieving victory over those trials and sorrows.
16. A “morally evil” creator would not want his creation to experience feelings like peace, love, hope, or joy.
17. We can feel peace, love, hope, and joy.
18. Therefore, our creator is not “morally evil”.
19. Yet, evil does exist. It must be a diametrically opposed force that could both tempt mankind to commit evil (anthropogenic evil) and directly cause natural evils. (Maybe “evil” with a “d” in front.)
20. According to #1-3 and by not allowing #10-13, it follows that God must be “morally good”.

----------------------------------------

http://ldschristian.org/ AUTHORS CONCLUSION

​

1. Since Mormonism is the only religion that keeps God “morally good”, and Joseph Smith knew the things that matched historical teachings, it follows that after eliminating the impossible, no matter how improbable it may seem to others, Mormonism must be the true church.

I exist, therefore I am a Mormon.

PROBLEM OF HELL !

The author of the novel "The Shack" as well as the vast majority of NDE experiencers, Svedenborgians and Mormons in essence agree that fundamental evangelicals have embraced a rather narrow and harsh concept of Hell, that contrasts with an afterlife governed by universal Love, oneness and inclusiveness. Hell experiences appear to be very graphic and a minority phenomenon, suggesting that it may have its place more as an exception than the rule. Mormon doctrine has evolved away from the original revivalist concept of Hell that the BofM appears to embrace. Wikipedia has posted a great discussion of the darker concepts in afterlife beliefs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_Hell (reprint from wikipedia)

The problem of Hell is an ethical problem in religion in which the existence of Hell for the punishment of souls is regarded as inconsistent with the notion of a just, moral, and omnibenevolent God. It derives from four key propositions: that Hell exists; that it is for the punishment of people whose lives on Earth are judged to have sinned against God; that some people go there; and there is no escape.[1]

​Francis Chan & the Mormons Video @ youtube http://bit.ly/1xH4koh 

Mormons have developed their concept of innovative Christianity in starting with the Book of Mormon, which is leaning closely on the Bible, but extending the evangelical salvation story to the American Indian's Ancestors. Later extensions incorporate Masonry.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/  ​http://www.2think.org/  Exodus 

Would you leave the Mormon Church if the BoM was just an inspirational novel like the Pilgrims Journey and only allegorically true, i.e. designed to get you closer to Jesus ? 

And to maximise belief we used the placebo effect, that is we didn't tell you its made up !  Can you live with that ? I often thought of posting this question to my friends but rarely did it. The usual answer is no, but I know its true - so the question is irrelevant.

Introducing Chris Cunningham's "amazing" (can't believe it) blog post. He writes:

A lot of people aren’t looking for a true church, they’re looking for a good church. (?!) They want to be part of an organization that is fundamentally sound and makes its members and the world around it better. I’m not trying to say the (Mormon) Church is perfect. But we so often get stuck focusing on its minor faults and its truth claims that we often miss what an outstanding organization it simply is. Here are 21 reasons we are lucky to be members. Read more here ...

​https://thirdhour.org/blog/faith/defending-the-faith/it-doesnt-matter-mormon-church-is-true/

No comments from me - I'm speechless - but you may press more for Michael's response.

THE LUCY CODE LINKS - Pre 1830 BofM Influences and Dartmouth Armenianism

In 1845 Lucy Mack Smith asked Brigham Young "Do you believe in stolen treasures ?" presumably referring to Mormonisms mystical masonic heritage. Her book, which D P Trebas called a ransom note, led him on a mind boggling journey of discovery to unearth its spiritual heritage. His conclusion: Even when dealing with a fake story "Truth can be found in narratives that are not literally true" . Masonic Arminianism (Fraternity), which formed the Prototype of Mormonism was Prof Johnny Smiths highly respected theological stream at Dartmouth University. Students joined debating societies either on the side of the Fraternity or with the Calvinist Congregationalists. 

WATCH THE LUCY CODE >>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf3MluItWQE​

Ken Peters comes across very honest and credible. Not every detail he dreamed will be literal truth, but the overall message is plausible, captivating and was very real to him. He said he was rattled to the core by his dream to the extent that he has turned his life around completely and is now a man with a mission that blesses people. What follows is an extract from his website.

KEN PETERS 

I saw the Tribulation, this video is recorded in 2005 at Prophecy Club. Ken Peters had dreams about end-time and tribulation in 1980. His dream greatly disturbed him, as he had no biblical knowledge of end times, the second coming of Christ or Tribulation. A few week after the dream, he accept Jesus as his savior.

The last part of video have prophecies. This is summary of prophecies;

Future Events

1. All countries the US entered outside of God's will, God has considered encroachment and will allow these nations to afflict the US.

2. The US has until the end of 2003 to change it's course back to God, if it fails to do so God will judge the US as a goat nation. America's determined time. [ ^ Events surrounding this prophecy.]

3. Judgment will begin soon on unrepentant cities, regional blessing or judgment. (Psalm 110:1-3)

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHtSCWCSe2Q
Kens Website www.heavenvisit.com/Ken_Peters.php
Transcript www.888c.com/ykp818.htm

AdamsRoad's Essay is doing a great job in discussing scripture relating the Grace vs Works. I would like to add my own thoughts. Quote:

"James teaches: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24). Paul teaches: “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law” (Romans 3:28). These are two seemingly diametrically opposed statements. Which one is correct? Do they contradict each other? Can they be reconciled?"

In the OT grace (remission of sins) made up the gap on salvation by works, just like in Mormonism. In the NT Grace is the new door to covenant salvation and the dominant principle due to the divine act of reconciliation and restoration of Gods divine presence with and within man on the cross and the subsequent restoration of eternal life manifest in the resurrection. God has ended the earlier OT dispensation with a divine universal redemptive act of eternal magnitude. 

This can not be minimised or trivialised without offending and minimising Gods grace. Works from thereon must follow as an outflow of the newly imparted divine nature and are hence called fruits (making the tree good). This also includes that what is impossible with mad is possible with God and "Let my grace be sufficient unto you". This can mean both the strength to outgrow human nature as well as the forgiveness of all failures as long as we remain in Grace i.e. in Christ. Thank you Jesus. We can be secure holding Gods heart and Citizenship in his kingdom and no longer need to earn our salvation or trust in our ability to qualify for it. It's the end of trying to please God to make it over the hurdle to go to heaven rather than hell. It's the beginning of feeling secure in our new identity / status / citizenship as the redeemed , as a son of the father and a bride of Jesus that is able to manifest an outflow of rivers of living waters by the Holy Ghost. Amen

In anticipation of the release of David Pawl Trebas Book and based on David's presentation titled “The Lucy Code” we look at some groundbreaking research into the germination OF MORMONISM.

​The Mormon story  does not start with the first vision. Its fundamental concepts where conceived by others even before Josephs time and we may say that Hyrum was the Prophet-Maker who "inspired" the poorly educated  Joseph with what he learned at Dartmouth College. In times of financial desperation the Smith tribe has discovered a new profession and identity that helped them to survive and thrive both materially and spiritually.

David Pawl Trebas has spent thousands of hours in research across a wider range of Pre-Mormon history  based on Lucy’s book, which is publicly available here:
http://signaturebookslibrary.org/lucys-book-the-textual-history-of-lucy-mack-smiths-book/
 
W Strohbeck – 15 January 2019
 

Nope ! An estimated 100 000 max pa may be closer to the truth. No reliable statistics exist, but analysis shows a fair number of unaccounted church members. I have heard it has become harder again to be struck from the record if you are not a high profile member that is perceived to be an antagonist. In my own immediate family I have a son that has renounced the LDS faith but not bothered to get is name off the LDS record. Then there others that just drift away for some reason or another. The number that leaves suddenly after the ongoing deception has just become too much to stomach and they are first very upset of course. And then there are those who know the LDS foundational claims are without substance, but choose to stay to practise a basic Christian faith within hoping that one day the LDS church will follow the RLDS churches playbook. The RLDS church has made the transition to Christianity without any significant loss in Membership and the once lost where actually the fundies, so they probably kept their faith in Jesus with a little stronger Mormon slant.

Mormon Historian meets with a 'General Authority' of the LDS Church

by Grant Palmer Three Meetings with a LDS General Authority, 2012-2013

Editors note:
Grant Palmer is one of the finest Mormon Christians I have ever had the privilege to get acquainted with. We never met in person, but we exchanged a few emails across the continents. There is much speculation regarding who the below mentioned GA is, but the very loving one I have in mind would not very likely have been so opinionated an judgemental of  his GA brethren.

In mid-October 2012, a returned LDS Mission President contacted me to arrange a meeting. Several days later, he called again and said that a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy also wished to attend. He said the General Authority would attend on condition that I not name him or repeat any stories that would identify him. He explained that neither of them, including the GA's wife, believed the founding claims of the restoration were true. He clarified that they had read my book, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, and had concluded that the LDS Church was not true; was not what it claimed to be. The GA often went to the MormonThink.com website for information and there discovered my book. The Mission President said he received my book from the GA. We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, "We are here to learn." I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.

He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are "church broke," meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly "because the people need it," meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: "No, he doesn't." The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn't expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.
When I asked the GA how he knew these things, he answered by saying that the Quorum of the Twelve today is more isolated from the Quorums of the Seventies now because there are several of them. When only one Quorum of the Seventy existed, there was more intimacy. During his one on one assignments with an apostle, conversations were more familiar. He said that none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on "his interactions with them." Also, that none of the Twelve want to discuss "truth issues," meaning issues regarding the foundational claims of the church.

He said that the apostle's lives are so completely and entirely enmeshed in every detail of their lives in the church, that many of them would probably die defending the church rather than admit the truth about Joseph Smith and the foundations of the church. The GA stated that my disciplinary action (which would have occurred on the final Sunday of October 2010 had I not resigned), was mandated/ordered/approved by the First Presidency of the Church. I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, "That's right!"

The GA said the church is like a weakened dam. At first you don't see cracks on the face; nevertheless, things are happening behind the scenes. Eventually, small cracks appear, and then the dam will "explode." When it does, he said, the members are going to be "shocked" and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past. The Mission President and the GA both said they attend church every Sunday and feel like "a hypocrite and trapped." The GA said his ward treats him like a king and when he gives firesides and speaks to LDS congregations they have high expectations of him. He would like to do more in getting the truth out besides raising a few questions when speaking and gifting my book to others when feeling comfortable. Perhaps this is why he has reached out to me. The GA is a man of integrity and very loving. Upon leaving each time, he always gives me a big hug. 

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What is Anti-Mormon?
from Sunstone Symposium, August 13-14, 2003
by Grant H. Palmer
World renowned LDS scientist, Dr. Henry Eyring, spoke at a number of "Challenge Weeks" during my college years at the University of Utah on the subject of science during the 1960's. At the end of one of his papers, a student mockingly asked during the question and answer period: "Joseph Smith said that men live on the moon, are dressed like Quakers -- do you believe that Dr. Eyring? Professor Eyring answered without hesitation, "I'm glad you asked that question. You see, in my religion you don't have to believe in anything that is not true." His answer reflected the definition of Mormonism that he had learned in his youth, namely, what Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other church leaders had said on the subject.
For example, Joseph Smith taught that "Truth is Mormonism" in 1839. [1] And between 1862-1870, Brigham Young, in educating the saints said that, "If there is a truth among the ungodly and wicked it belongs to us, and if there is a truth in hell it is ours." [2] "Mormonism," said Young, "is all truth in heaven, on earth or in hell. -- All truth is ours. Now if anybody wants to make a trade, come on! If you have truths, and I have errors, I will give ten errors for one truth -- bring on your truth." [3] For "Mormonism embraces all truth that is revealed and that is unrevealed, whether religious, political, scientific, or philosophical." [4] "Mormonism includes all truth," he said. [5] 
There are usually two or more viewpoints for virtually every proposition under the sun, thus it comes down to how good is the evidence? For example there are people in the United States today that do not believe that Neil Armstrong stood on the moon. They believe the whole moon landing was staged in a studio with cameras, but how good is their evidence? Some people do not believe the Jewish Holocaust occurred, but how good is their evidence? There is still a Flat Earth Club of London, but the three dimensional earth photographs of the beautiful blue and white orb taken by Buzz Aldrin from the moon, cut their club membership in half. Nevertheless, nine people still believe in a flat earth and belong to the club.
According to early Mormonism, "Truth is Mormonism" and thus it is falsehood itself that is anti-Mormon. Here are three clear examples that represent what I believe to be anti-Mormonism under this definition.
Former LDS member, Ed Decker, has made several movies on the Mormon temple ceremony. In his second film, he notes that Adam and Eve's prayer petition to God in a foreign tongue, is in reality a prayer to "wonderful Lucifer." Prior to using this foreign language prayer in his film, Decker had asked a Hebrew and Greek scholar for his interpretation of the prayer. When the scholar said such an interpretation was unwarranted, Decker said: "I'm going to use it anyway." This action is anti-Mormon.
Some people within the LDS Church itself are quick to rush to judgment about what is anti-Mormon. All too often religious literature and political positions are labeled anti-Mormon prematurely. For example, Juanita Brook's book on the Mountain Meadows Massacre, once called anti-Mormon literature, is now carried and recommended by Deseret Book employees for those inquiring about this controversial subject. Time has vindicated Brooks. Someone owes her descendants an apology. She was unofficially dis- fellowshipped for publishing her book. She was asked not to make comments at church, and even her husband was punished by never being asked to pray again in church.
For a third example, I would observe that the early Mormon teaching that "Truth is Mormonism," needs to be re-emphasized in the LDS Church today, beginning with the Book of Abraham. Brigham Young University professor, Michael Rhoades, at the behest of Apostle Neal Maxwell and using the tithing money of the church has translated and published a book on the Joseph Smith papyri that were recovered by the church in 1967. The papyri have nothing to do with Abraham. Overwhelming evidence demonstrates that the papyri are about an Egyptian priest of Amon-Re, named Hor. In Facsimile 3, for example, Joseph Smith has repeatedly said that the Egyptian language above the hands and heads of the various persons in this document are all about Abraham. He is simply wrong, and it doesn't matter how he arrived at this information. Various writers who have published this evidence are not anti-Mormon, even though speakers at the F.A.I.R. conference called them such last week. Thus, in the best tradition of Mormonism, the Book of Abraham, now embedded within Mormon scripture should be dropped from the standard works of he LDS Church. To continue to spin the Book of Abraham as authentic, in light of the overwhelming evidence, is anti-Mormon.
When something is shown by solid evidence to be false, according to the above definition, LDS prophets should be willing to modify or discard. It is not enough to say that it is through feeling that fact is found in the LDS Church, that "you shall feel that it is right," and therefore it is truth (D&C 9:8). Neither is it acceptable to encourage small children, who cannot read or write to repeat, "I know the church is true," "I know that Joseph Smith is a true Prophet." We all have hunches, intuitions and feelings and they certainly have their place in our search for truth. Sometimes the evidence supports our feelings. But when the facts and evidence do not support our hunches, intuitions and feelings, then we must decide, do facts and evidence trump feelings, or do I believe that feelings trump facts and evidence. I believe the mature person accepts the former.
I hope the panel will allow ample time for those in the audience to share what you think anti-Mormonism is and what it is not. Thank you.

[1] Dean C. Jessee, comp. and ed., The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1984), 389, emphasis added. 
[2] Brigham Young, January 12, 1868, in Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (London and Liverpool: LDS Booksellers Depot, 1854-86), 12:155.
[3] Brigham Young, July 3, 1870, Ibid., 14:280-81. 
[4] BY, January 12, 1862, Ibid., 9:149.
[5] BY, April 8, 1867, Ibid., 11:375.

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Religious Feeling and Truth

MIDWESTERN JOURNAL OF THEOLOGY  (Spring 2010:115-118)

by Grant Palmer

Author Grant H. Palmer spent his career as a teacher within the LDS Church Educational System. In 2004, he was disciplined after writing a book that called into question Mormonism's claims about its founder, the Prophet Joseph Smith, while at the same time calling upon his church to place greater emphasis on Jesus Christ. Although Palmer is not a Southern Bapist -- indeed he still considers himself a Mormon -- we are pleased that he was willing to share with us how he came to the conclusion that one must not ultimately base the acceptance or rejection of religious truth on feelings. In making his case, Palmer challenges the central Mormon belief that the best (perhaps the only) way to be sure that the book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith really a prophet is to pray to receive a testimony, or "burning Bosom," providing assurance that they are. (The Editor)
When Pontius Pilate interrogated Jesus shortly before his death, Jesus said, I came "into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice," meaning to follow him. Pilate then asked his now famous rhetorical question, "What is truth?" and abruptly ended the interview (John 18:37-38). Earlier in his ministry the Apostle Thomas had asked: "How can we know the way?" and Jesus explicitly replied, "I am the way, [I am] the truth" (John 14:5-6). The Apostles John, Paul and Peter later repeated that "truth came by Jesus Christ," that "the truth is in Jesus" and that Jesus is "the way of truth" (John 1:17; Eph. 4:21; 2 Pet. 2:2). The truth about God for the Christian is seen in the personality, character, wisdom, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ as recorded in the New Testament. For the Christian, Christ is religious Truth.
How then does a person specifically come to know religious Truth/Christ? I like the fact that Jesus emphasized an empirical test of his teachings to "know" him rather than a metaphysical approach to truth. It is instructive to bear in mind that Jesus never invited anyone to know him by a religious feeling. Instead of advocating a controversial and highly subjective spiritual feeling methodology to know him and his teachings, Jesus taught: "If any man will do his [Father's] will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." And in one of his recorded prayers, Jesus said that taking upon us the name of God and his character is to "know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (John 7:17; 17:3, emphasis added).
The aged Peter reemphasized this doctrine to the saints --saying that the "divine nature" of Christ and his teachings can be known only by exemplifying the Christlike characteristics of: "Diligence [in our daily walk] -- faith [in God] -- virtue -- knowledge [of the scriptures] -- temperance [meaning self control, moderation and balance] -- patience -- godliness [goodness] -- brotherly kindness [gentleness] -- charity" [love and compassion]. Peter then explained that when these nine qualities "be in you, and abound'' then we "know -- Jesus Christ'' (2 Pet. 1:4-8, emphasis added). Paul also taught the saints "to put on Christ," to strive for these characteristics, until "Christ be in you," "until Christ be formed in you." His list of the fruits by which a Christian is known is almost identical with Peter's. He also lists nine qualities: "love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance" (Rom. 8:10; 13:14; Gal. 4:19; 5:22-23). 
Shortly before leaving the earth Jesus promised his disciples that he would send to them His agent the Holy Spirit. Jesus then described the mission and responsibility of the Holy Spirit to his apostles: (1) He will "bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" --to sharpen and intensify all the words, teachings and example of Jesus' ministry to their "remembrance" (John 14:26, emphasis added); (2) "When the Comforter is come -- he shall testify of me" --he will bring "comfort," peace and tranquility to their soul that Jesus is Christ (John 15:26, emphasis added); (3) When "the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth [about me]: for he shall -- glorify me" --He will "guide" or "sanctify [them,] through the truth," which further "glorifies" Christ (John 16:13-14, emphasis added; cf. John 17:19); (4) And after the "power -- [of] the Holy Ghost is come upon you: ye shall be witnesses unto me" --He will empower, embolden, and enliven, to fill them with enthusiasm (God in us) and the confidence to compellingly testify of Christ to others (Acts 1:8, emphasis added). Shortly after the Day of Pentecost, all these promises are plainly manifested by the Apostles in Acts chapters 2-5. In summary, all of the statements made by Jesus about the Holy Spirit during his ministry have this in common --the Holy Spirit is all about Christ!

One of the most emphasized teachings in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is found in the oft quoted passage found in the Book of Mormon: "And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things" (Moro. 10:5, emphasis added). In this verse we see a move away from the Holy Spirit's role of testifying of things Christ, as taught by Jesus in the New Testament, to the idea that one can know the truth about anything--about "all things." An extreme example of this teaching within the Book of Mormon is when Nephi stated: "I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head" (1 Ne. 4:18). A more recent example of a Mormon being influenced by this teaching is when Ron and Dan Lafferty received a "revelation" of the "Spirit" to kill Brenda Lafferty and her infant child because, like Nephi's rationale, Brenda was interfering with the future progress of their religious movement.

The Holy Spirit may well tell a person the Book of Mormon is true because it testifies and brings a person to Christ, who is the Truth, but not whether the Book of Mormon's theological doctrines are true. For example, does the spirit that is felt when reading the book mean that it confirms that God and Christ is the same being [Palmer alludes to the Book of Mormon modalistic tendencies] or that man is more evil than good --both doctrines taught in the Book of Mormon, but later reversed by Joseph Smith? Since Mormons now believe that God and Christ are two separate beings, and that man is more good than evil, taught since the early 1840's in Nauvoo by Smith, which confirming spirit is a true one? Nor does the Spirit confirm the truth or falsity of whether the Book of Mormon is a real record of a historical people of the distant past. The Holy Spirit testifies of all things Christ, not "all things" as Joseph Smith taught in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. When a church or group embraces the idea that when preacher and hearer "are edified," or feel the "Spirit of truth," and thus what they speak and hear is the truth (D&C 50:20-21), they open up a can of worms that leads to strange mis-directions and mischief, as witnessed throughout history. For example, many followers of the LDS and FLDS churches have received the confirming and edifying "Spirit" that Warren Jeff's or Thomas Monson is the "prophet, seer and revelator" for humankind. Moreover, some fundamentalist Mormon churches pass out literature quoting Brigham Young and others that polygamy is divine and is to be practiced. The promise being that one can know by reading, praying, pondering, and feeling the "Spirit." Some claim they receive the edifying "Spirit of truth," and join with these religious congregations. Some young Muslims become fully convinced through religious feeling that Allah wants them to strap bombs around their waist and detonate themselves and others for the glory of Allah. I was once invited by an enthusiastic promoter to invest $8,000 in a Fort Worth, Texas, oil well. After praying and pondering and feeling the "Spirit," I gave him the money but lost every cent. I also felt the "Spirit" strongly after hearing the inspiring World War II stories of Paul H. Dunn and Douglas Stringfellow, which were later found to be largely bogus. Some people claim they found their car keys only after praying and being led by the Spirit where to look. These kinds of stories are plentiful. The tendency of religious people is to report only those spiritual feeling experiences that actually come true, seldom those that fail. The reality is that God's purposes in giving the Holy Spirit did not include infallibly leading us into a very literal application of "know[ing] the truth of all things."

Throughout my life I have heard the repeated phrase, "I know the church is true," "the only true church on earth" (D&C 1:30). I have come to believe that Christian churches are not true or false, but rather good or bad depending on the degree to which they focus on the life of Jesus, his teaching ministry, his character, his wisdom, atonement, and Christ-like service. Churches that emphasize Christ and his core teachings, such as the importance of being "born again" and the sanctifying role of God's grace in that process, resulting in Christ-like love and service to the less fortunate, are the most valuable. Churches that allow Jesus to fall through the cracks, that occasionally instead of regularly focus on Christ himself, that are largely preoccupied with their own peculiar beliefs and intuitional needs, with emphasis upon service within the organization, are less valuable.
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Grant H. Palmer is the author of The Incomparable Jesus (Kofford Books, 2005) and An Insider's View of Mormon Origins (Signature Books, 2002). He has also penned articles for the Salt Lake Tribune and Sunstone magazine. He retired in 2001, after thirty-four years of teaching and counseling for C.E.S. He and his wife Connie, live in Sandy, Utah.

I have tuned out a little from Mormonism over the last few years and I am surprised that only now I have heard about Kay Burningham's 2011 book. What's fairly new in 2018 however is that Paul Adams has taken up the slack and is pushing for a class action law suit. He also has put out a petition to sign. 

https://www.amazon.com/American-Fraud-Lawyers-against-Mormonism-ebook/dp/B004S7FTXE story.

Kay Burningham's book is tiled "An American Fraud". Very interesting ! It's sad, my very beautiful niece from Europe has visited us in Oz and I don't like to have to be the one who has to break the news to her. Read book review and impact it had here. More ...
 
http://www.mormonthink.com/personalstories/kayburningham.htm

Class action is unlikely to fly and if successful against all odds would not be good for religious freedom in general. Its not the Christian thing to sue but it could help to facilitate more honesty. The temple interview applies to GA's just as well: "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?" - No double standards ! Publicity will stir the pot. Many unwinnable have been filed.

The church plays tactical games with its essays. Some are very hard to find. More info here.
http://www.mormonthink.com/essays-responses-intro.htm

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Temple Interview

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

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The LDS church hides some essays from the menu.

Current Gospel Topics Essays (as per menu)

Are Mormons Christian?
Becoming Like God
Book of Mormon and DNA Studies
Book of Mormon Translation
First Vision Accounts
Joseph Smith’s Teachings about Priesthood, Temple, and Women
Mother in Heaven
Peace and Violence among 19th-Century Latter-day Saints
Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Race and the Priesthood
Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham


#jmo #iami https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRryhVcZl0g

If the bible can't be taken literal , then what alternatives do we have ?
​
Most Christians accept the scientific study of the Bible as legitimate. Christianity is a religion built on truth . Restricting ourselves to a narrow ideological view, such as strict literalism especially when God is shown in an unfavourable light, interferes with our ability to trust in God's goodness and principal revelation through the Bible. In the majority view, many of the Bible's stories are historically accurate and should be interpreted literally. But some spiritual truths are revealed through the common literary mechanisms of allegory, parable, simile, metaphor, hyperbole, and irony that were never intended to be taken literally. Such mechanisms serve to "paint a mental picture" of ideas not easily expressed in words.
 
Hermeneutics
The modern understanding of the Bible came about partly as a result of discoveries in the fields of astronomy, geology and biology, but also as a result of developments in hermeneutics, the science and art of Bible interpretation consisting of observation, interpretation, evaluation, and application  are the heart of all approaches to finding out what the Bible means. Interpreting the Bible correctly is a two-step process. We must first discover what the passage meant in the day and age of the author. Then we must discover its message for us in today's culture. Observation and interpretation apply to the first step; evaluation and application apply to the second . The stories in Genesis Chapters 1-11 serve primarily to establish the spiritual foundation of all that follows. The stories of Creation, the Great Flood and the Tower of Babel reveal the essential nature of God, His power and glory, and His relation to us.